Honest Marketing

Matt Ryder: Become a Master of Sales

• Honest Podcasts • Episode 56

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Sales can be a tricky game to navigate, with dozens of strategies and even more potential pitfalls littering the landscape.

But how about we cut through the noise and learn from a pro how to master this field and rise to the top of our sales game?

In this episode, we gear up for an insightful and skill-unpacking discourse with Matt Ryder, seasoned expert and CEO of 7th level. Matt shares his journey from the military to sales, a transition as unexpected as it was fruitful. 

We dive into big no-nos of sales like assumptive language, and the magic of effective scripts. My conversation with Matt Ryder was a real eye-opener, laying out not just the strategies to do sales right, but also underlining the common pitfalls to evade. Matt's real-world examples backed by data reframe the entire sales process into a powerful system that everyone can plug into. 

From NEPQ (Neuro-Emotional Persuasion Questioning) sales method to the nuances of communication, this particular episode has a lot to offer for both beginners and seasoned salespeople.

So hold off on your assumptive tendencies and tune into this episode for some real sales wisdom straight from a man who's worked this game from different angles. It could very well be the edge you need in this competitive marketplace.

Specifically, this episode highlights the following themes:

  • Evolution and adaptability in sales techniques
  • Effective use of scripts and steering conversations towards desired outcomes
  • The applicability of the NEPQ sales process regardless of the industry

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And if you have a guest in mind who you think would be a great fit for this show, drop me a line at hello@honestpodcasts.com. 

Matt Ryder [00:00:00]:
The most common reason why people screw up their sales is because they're not actually listening to the prospect. They're just trying to figure out what they're going to say next. And so if you can release yourself of that, you have to know the intent, like understanding the what, the why, and the how behind the questions. That kind of allows you to kind of really be good at sales.

Travis Albritton [00:00:21]:
Welcome back to the Honest Marketing podcast, where you learn proven strategies to grow your business business without selling your soul. I'm your host, Travis Albritton. And today I got to interview Matt Ryder, who is the CEO of 7th level sales. So 7th level is the number one B2C sales training coaching company in North America. And we just go through all kinds of sales level tactics, strategies, things that you should avoid when you're on a call with a prospect, going through a sales process. And then at the end, we do some actual role play where I give them a hypothetical situation and then we have a live sales conversation. So you could see how their methodology, their approach in action and actually just experience it, which is something that I was really grateful happened. So definitely make sure you stick around for that.

Travis Albritton [00:01:05]:
Stick around to the end of the episode. I'll give you my number one takeaway from my conversation with Matt. But here it is. Let's dive in, Matt. Super pumped to have you on the honest marketing podcast and picking your brain so I can be a better salesperson. And then as a byproduct, anyone listening would also become a better salesperson.

Matt Ryder [00:01:20]:
I will do my best.

Travis Albritton [00:01:22]:
I have no doubt.

Matt Ryder [00:01:22]:
I will try not to bitterly disappoint. Yeah, that's what I told my wife on our weding day.

Travis Albritton [00:01:27]:
It's a good word there.

Matt Ryder [00:01:29]:
Just set the bar low. Yeah.

Travis Albritton [00:01:31]:
So just set a little bit of context. Talk about your background in sales, talk about sales cipher, talk about 7th level, but really just a little bit of background on you and what your focus is and what your expertise is in.

Matt Ryder [00:01:42]:
Yeah, for sure, man. So I was in the military sort of before anything. And I think that's where I learned a lot of how to learn and how to break things down. I think the military is brilliant at teaching complex systems to morons. Basically, if you boil it down to it, that's what the system is designed to do. It's designed to teach simple people complex things. Right. There's not only simple people there, but they have to have one system for everything.

Matt Ryder [00:02:10]:
Right? I went into new procurement and then went special operations, then became a sniper. Then from there I got out and then went into fitness because that's kind of the requirement. You either go into police or fitness. That's all you're allowed to do. And then from there, sort of wasn't very good at sales. Never really thought about it. But I realized pretty quickly that even there were really good trainers who had no clients. And there were what I would consider to be pretty average trainers that were really full, and I would have preferred to be full than not.

Matt Ryder [00:02:43]:
And so I did all this stuff to become a good trainer, but then I was like, it doesn't really help me get clients. And so what I did is I sort of started working more on how do I get clients and how do I market and how do I sell and stuff like that, and then became quite full in that respect. And I think personal training and fitness is a phenomenal stepping off point to sales. And you became like an accidental salesperson, which I think is most people in sales, no one raises their hand as a kid and is like, I want to be a sales rep. They get thrown tomatoes at their face and stuff like that in school. And so people fall into sales is usually how it goes. And so I sort of just ended up being kind of a salesperson. Then I ended up with business partners, and we ended up opening up a fair few gyms.

Matt Ryder [00:03:28]:
And my role was really to ensure that they opened effectively. And so I would come in and I would be the sales force to try and open the gyms. And so I ended up being on the phones basically full time for years and never once considered myself a salesperson ever, but then realized that all I did was sales, like, probably seven years after or five years after doing it full time. And I was always looking for ways to make things easier for myself. And so the way that I did that was by pretty tracking data and the way that I was taught in sniper school. You track your data and then you have all your scenarios and north facing, south facing, high elevation, low elevation, high humidity, low humidity, cold barrel, warm barrel, et cetera. Right. You know how to do it all, so if you don't, you're not very good at your job.

Matt Ryder [00:04:17]:
So I was like, okay, well, let's take the same mentality. And then started just whittling away at things. Then from there, kind of progressed that through into different genres, really. And then I started learning a better way to sell. Right, using NEPQ. And that sort of took all the things that I had learned over ten years of selling the wrong way, but effectively right, because I had sort of systemized myself into being effective, you know what I mean? And I was a bit of a blow out of the gate when it came to it, the conversation style. And then when I learned a better way, I became very, very effective. Like I became a highly paid and proficient and sort of skilled salesperson and then navigated that through all different things.

Matt Ryder [00:05:03]:
But now I sort of have sold, I've sold a lot of stuff and I've been selling full time essentially, besides sort of like business owner stuff for a while. And I love it, mate. It's a phenomenal skill set to have. It gives you the confidence that it doesn't matter what happens, I'll figure it out. I'm pretty confident. And if everything fell apart tomorrow, I could just walk into oracle and be their top salesperson. So I feel like within a couple of weeks I'll be earning just as much money as what I am right now. You know what I mean? So it's just a great skill set.

Matt Ryder [00:05:36]:
I love sales. I think that there's this terrible stigma about it, you know what I mean? And I think that that comes from most people who are the figureheads of the sales world. I think that they just drink their own koolaid, man, and have never done anything particularly difficult in life and they have never had their egos checked. But I come from a background where doesn't really work like that. Being in the special operations community, none of my friends are going to let me get as arrogant as where I'd like to be considering my skill set. Those are the people that's sort of the symptom of the salesperson having a bad rap, you know what I mean? And so there's a better way to do it. You don't have to be a sleaze bag. And I think sales is a phenomenal skill set to try and attain.

Matt Ryder [00:06:30]:
That's me in a nutshell.

Travis Albritton [00:06:31]:
Yeah, I totally agree. I think sales is one of the few skills that you could use, really in any industry, any business type, any business model, and even applies to just interpersonal relationships. It's like once you learn how to actively listen and then start mirroring and then connect the dots to how to help them overcome the problems they're voicing and being a part of that solution, that's just something that's universally applicable. And you are right that there is this negative stigma associated with the used car salesman trying to sell you a lemon. It's not about you. It's about them and their own self interest.

Matt Ryder [00:07:07]:
Yeah, I think that comes from the way salespeople are paid they're paid on commission, so they obviously want you to make a sale. And I think that because of that, the people who have been attractive to salespeople are people that embody that do this to make a ton of commission type stuff. And so I've always tried to be super transparent and forthright with the fact that sales is not easy, but everyone can do it. And there is also more than one way to skin the cat when it comes to being a good sales rep. I think I was a low skilled, yet highly effective rep for a long time. And then through a series of processes and activities and systemization, then from there, it was able to learn a better way to sell. That worked with my brain really well. You know what I mean? There's a system to it.

Matt Ryder [00:07:57]:
It's like, I can make sense of this. And then once you learn the system, it's like, okay, I can start to translate that into a lot of different fronts. Even, like, with my kids, right? It was my daughter's fifth birthday a little while ago. We're at the birthday party, and my son, he's almost eight, he's running around like a psychopath doing eight year old boy things and just trying to ruin everything, right? And I went to him, I said, hey. I was like, hey, man, seems like you're kind of trying to ruin summer's party. He goes, and I was like, well. I was like, man, you can do what you want, but at the end of the day, I'm just a bit concerned for you. He's like, why? I was like, well, you're teaching your sister.

Matt Ryder [00:08:35]:
That's what she should do, right? So what happens if at your birthday party, she does the same things you're doing? Like, what happens then? He's like, oh, why don't. I wanted to ruin my party. I said, why not? Because it's my party. I want to have fun. I was like, but how is she not going to ruin your party if you ruin hers and that's what you teach her? He's like, oh, I hadn't thought of it that way. I was like, so what are you going to do? He's like, oh, stop. It's like, why? He's like this? And I was like, okay, that's a good decision, budy. So it's like, you just take him through, like, a little loop.

Matt Ryder [00:09:01]:
It's like, okay, cool. That's like half of selling. It's just like, here's where we are. Here's where we want to be. How do we connect these dots? And if you take someone through the journey where they do the thinking and you're just posing the question. It's just a far more powerful way to do it. You know what I mean? It's a great skill set when it comes to interpersonal communications. And I think the more I understand it and the more I'm able to control my tone and control the way that I convey myself, I think the more effective I am as a communicator in general.

Travis Albritton [00:09:43]:
Yeah, I want to dig into Napq because there's all these different philosophies of sales or approaches to sales or how to frame questions. I think about the outsourced SDR, it's like, give me the sales script and I'll cold call a bunch of people and then give you leads. There's every variation of different approaches. So what makes NEPQ different? From the perspective not just of outcome, like more favorable outcomes, more sales, but then also that the interaction between the salesperson and the prospect is a lot healthier. I would just love to hear you kind of break it down.

Matt Ryder [00:10:20]:
Yeah. So the thing that I like, I've done a lot of other sales trainings and stuff like that, and I think that everything done well by the right person is effective. Right. So there's no one way to skin the cat. And I don't particularly care how people do things as long as it works and it's ethical. Right. There's no right way. There's just ways that work.

Matt Ryder [00:10:44]:
And that's one of the things I try and teach in the courses when we train people is like something is working very well. I'm not arrogant enough to tell you to fix it, right? But let's work around the other stuff. Fix the other stuff. You know what I mean? So there's a way to implement stuff, right. That people don't really realize. And a lot of people come in and they just throw everything they're doing out and then just adapt our stuff. And I'm like, well, of course it didn't work. That's why literally the first part of the course is me going, stop.

Matt Ryder [00:11:12]:
Do not implement all of this at once. You will get a worse result. Literally the first video, it's like, everyone stop. I know you're excited, and I'm very excited for you. However, if you're closing at 30%, chances are you probably shouldn't change a lot of what you're doing. We can just do slow and incremental changes that have a really net positive outcome. But interesting that the big difference between NEPQ and most of the things is that it's not industry specific. And I think there's a big misconception it's because salespeople, really good salespeople, like really effective ones, will always tell you it doesn't matter what industry they're in, right? But mid tier and below will always say it's their industry, right? But that's the same with anyone, right? Like, oh, it's the economy, it's the market.

Matt Ryder [00:12:02]:
Facebook leads just don't work. It's like, well, really? Because I sell a ton of them, right? So it's like, maybe not. It's not industry specific. And so we train everyone. And when I mean everyone, mate, my goodness, is a lot of people getting trained, right? I do a lot of the more high level team training stuff. Like, if your business wants to get trained, I put together the packages. They're not cheap. They're usually six figures and above for bespoke team training stuff.

Matt Ryder [00:12:35]:
Because I structure out the processes and everything, right? Basically do what your chief sales officer should have done. You know what I mean? But it's like I'm on the call with a large insurance company, and then I'm on with a cleaning company, and then I'm on the phone with a fitness company, and then I'm on the phone with a business consultancy firm or lawyers, right? And it's like, I teach in the same method. There's just tweaks to wording or really understanding the problems, you know what I mean? But once you understand the method and the problem of the prospect, it's easy. It's just the same conversation. Same as. It's the same conversation when you're talking to the CEO of a massive business or you're talking to Joe Block. It's actually an easier conversation when you're talking to the CEO. It's way easier than, like, doing a bizop sale, right? It's a much easier conversation.

Matt Ryder [00:13:23]:
You know what I mean? Because it's just a better chat, to be honest, doesn't mean the sale happens faster, but it's better. And so people think that there's all these differences, and it's like, mate, you're selling humans the other day. Is the person across from you human? Okay, cool. Then the style. There might be slight variations in word choice or, like, tonal choices, but those are individual variations based on the person that you're speaking to. Like, if I'm speaking to a real alpha type personality that talks a lot, I just do slightly different things to get them on the track. That I want them on, but I do the same script, essentially, but I'm just going to have a slight variation in what I allow them to do, and then I'll change my pacing and my tone a little bit. But the words stay pretty similar, you know what I mean? And if I'm talking to a board, instead of what happens if I'd said, have you considered what the possible ramifications would be? If so, I just make it a bit more professional speak.

Matt Ryder [00:14:26]:
But it's the same question, you know what I mean? And so it's just slight variations. And that's what I think. NEPQ is pretty interesting because it's the first one that's gone, dude, your industry doesn't matter, mate. It doesn't matter. And if you think it does, you're probably just not very good at sales, you know what I mean? But if you want to learn how to get better, this is how you can do it. And it's a system that you can follow which covers the entirety of sales, right? And so that is a huge. And you can script the entire thing. So you can come to us and go, we have a cold calling division, a door knocking division, a warm inbound lead, a cold outbound lead, do you know what I mean? And then from there, we take them into all these different services, and then we have back end customer service and upsells.

Matt Ryder [00:15:14]:
I'd be like, sweet. I can write those scripts easy, right? And I can make it one big sales process, or I can make it into little chunky ones or whatever, right? So it's like, we can do that. And the reason why we can do that one is because we're quite good at sales in terms of that. But also, we're at the point now where I have a vault of scripts that are proven from thousands of reps in hundreds of industries right across all different economic environments, b to c, b to b, business to government, enterprise level. Do you know what I mean? Fundraising. And now, because we train them and we get the feedback from them, we get to learn more about it, and then we make tweaks and we update stuff based on what the feedback that we're getting from our clients. If we're getting a lot of feedback of like, well, this isn't. Okay, well, I wonder if we tried it this Way and then go test it, let us know how it goes.

Matt Ryder [00:16:18]:
Oh, that worked. Sweet. All right, cool. That becomes how we do it now. Right? So it's a constant, evolving process, right? And so I think that 7th level is going to be a very hard business to catch in terms of that, because now it's sort of like Tesla at the, like no one's going to beat them because they have the data. Right. No one's going to create a better auto drive system because no one has the data points. Tesla has.

Matt Ryder [00:16:44]:
If they can use Tesla's data points, they could make a better one, but they're not going to let them do that. Right. And so you might have industry guys that do really well in their industry, but no one's going to take over that. It's now the biggest sales training organization from b to c in North America. Right. There's no one bigger. Right. So it's an interesting space to be.

Matt Ryder [00:17:10]:
I'm moving more into the enterprise level stuff at the moment. I'm sort of hanging my head up in terms of running the show for a bit because I don't think I'm the right guy to do that. I'm more of a growth person. If I hang around too long, I'll probably destroy it so I can grow it again. Right. So I'm developing all of the more b to b, enterprise government level sort of strategies to do large deals, like a million dollars worth of sales in December. And it was all sort of like seven, six figure deals, you know what I mean? Like for enterprise level stuff, just testing all the waters for that. I'll build that department and then I'll get that up to 40, 50 million a year, and then I'll bounce out ANd do something else.

Matt Ryder [00:17:57]:
Right. That seems like the fun thing to do, but, yeah. Does that sort of answer the question?

Travis Albritton [00:18:04]:
I think so. I want to dig down into a couple specific follow ups, the first one being when you bring on a new industry or a new client or a new business, and they're looking for help with developing those sales scripts, those sales flows. What's kind of like your standard template that you start with? Like, here are the core elements that no matter what you're going to need, no matter what your inbound looks like or how you're getting leads, no matter what you're selling, these are the core things that every person needs in their sales process.

Matt Ryder [00:18:35]:
Yeah. So it's really like the NEPQ sales process is broken down to what the buyer needs to go through in order to do a sale. Right. Which is like. So it's connecting situation problem awareness, solution awareness, consequence questions, commitment questions. You transition and then present. Right. So what it is is that's what the sales script will look like, you know what I mean? But that can be broken up into five calls.

Matt Ryder [00:19:00]:
You might do connecting and situation questions. The next call, you might do this. The key is it's like, it's a flow, right? And so you can do that in one call in 20 minutes, right. If you're selling like a $2,000 fitness thing, it's like, boom, done, right? It's got to go through it, though, you know what I mean? So it's just like you're just not going to sit and explore that much in any particular one. Or you might emphasize one more than the other. Right. If you're in more of a b to B environment, the way that I do it is like call one is like 30 minutes, and it's connecting situation problem awareness, solution awareness, and consequence, basically. And then call two.

Matt Ryder [00:19:34]:
It's like sort of a proposal, right? I walk them through what I'm thinking based on that, and then call three is sort of like close, right? And then we have some other guys that have much longer sales cycles or some people have much shorter. Right. But the connecting questions are really about what are you here for? How can I help? What's the overarching goal in which you're looking to attain, and what is the context that you came to me? You know what I mean? And really it's designed to take the pressure or focus off me as a salesperson, on you as the prospect, and it can establish cadence and that kind of stuff. There's a bunch of different ways to do that, and there's simple ways that we teach, and there's more advanced ways that we teach, right? You know what I mean? Depending on where you're at. Because the more advanced ways are more effective and much harder to pull off. So if you teach an advanced way to someone who's not advanced, and it'll totally ruin it, right? Because the connecting phase is very important, because it's sort of like that lure of subtension, right? Like if you are going to walk 1000 miles and you start three inches to the left, you know what I mean? By the time you're way off course, right? So the connecting phase is very. Okay, cool, what is that? What are you here for? Then from there, you go into situation. It's like, what are you currently doing about the thing that you're here for? Right.

Matt Ryder [00:20:53]:
Then from there you go into problem awareness. What are the problems that you're seeing that are associated with the way that you're doing it to get you to the thing? So it just stacks on top. It's like, what's the problem? How long has it been a problem? What's causing the problem? What impact is the problem having, right? And then you've got all kinds of different questions and tools in your toolboat that you can use in order to get the real problems right. As people go, oh, man, it's working pretty well. Go, hey, man, that's awesome, dude, sounds like it's going perfect. Nothing's ever perfect, right? So it's like, well, it's not perfect. Well, what do you mean not perfect? Right? Or they go, hey, sounds like things are going pretty well. Is there anything you change about XYZ, if you could? So you give a person an opportunity to kind of like, here's your opportunity to complain.

Matt Ryder [00:21:36]:
People love complaining. And so it's like then they give you something, you go, okay, what do you mean by that? How long has that been going on for? How's that impacting the business? Oh, that makes sense. And then you start to get a bit of better picture. Once you do that, then you go into solution awareness, which is like, what is the ideal outcome that you're looking for? Because that initial outcome that you're looking for, you don't really get the right, the full picture early on, you know what I mean? Because it's just very early in the conversation, so they're not going to give you the whole picture, which is fair enough. So you try and flesh that out a little bit. Try and get a criteria of what it is they're looking for around that. And then from there you get tangible and emotional anchors, right? So let's just say you're talking to a large company and they have a high churn rate in your sales team. All right, I had this the other day.

Matt Ryder [00:22:23]:
It's like, well, and so it's like, okay, well, what would it be like for the business, though, if you were able to reduce that churn, keep your. And get that uptick that you're looking for? Oh, mate. We'd be able to get an extra 1015 million a year. And what would that do for the business? Well, we could do x and Y and z. Oh, that makes sense. So what's been stopping you from getting that now? Why is the turn rate so high? Well, we just don't have any training in place. And this and this, like, okay, what happens if you guys don't get the training in place, though, and the turn rate keeps or potentially even gets worse? What happens then? That's my consequence phase, right? And then we explore failure. That's what drives the urgency to buy.

Matt Ryder [00:22:59]:
Now, and then we do a commitments, like, well, why not? Do you guys want to do this now? Why not just put this off until the next financial year like you did last year? Wow. We thought about that, and it's getting to the point now, you know what I mean? And they'll open up, right. Because you're just asking questions contextually and normally and using a tonality that's just genuinely curious, you know what I mean? Or concerned. You get the consequence, then you got the tension, you get the commitment, and then from there you just say, well, I think that what we do might actually work for you. If you want, I can walk you through what we do and how we do it, and I think it solves some of your problems. Like, would that help you out? Yeah, it would. Okay, we can do that. And then you just have a nice, short and concise presentation.

Matt Ryder [00:23:42]:
Long presentations are horrific and everyone hates them, so I think everyone should just stop doing them. And, yeah, that's an EPQ in a nutshell. Really?

Travis Albritton [00:23:52]:
Yeah. So what I love about that, especially because I've consumed a lot of sales material and trading material and then going through my own temptations of how I want sales calls to go. The thing that I always hear is, what's the listening to talking ratio of a salesperson? Like, if you're on the call, on average, how much are you talking versus how much are you listening? And the salespeople that I know that have been really successful, they basically just queue up the person they're talking to with the right question and then let them go. And then, okay, here's the next question. And then now they feel like it's almost like they're now in, like, a therapy session, like talking about their business problem or whatever it is they're doing, and then you're just the person that's guiding them through figuring out how to deal with this problem. And then you happen to also have the solution. That's where sales becomes fun, because it's not. Okay.

Travis Albritton [00:24:52]:
I have to always be closing that kind of hardcore mindset. Like, whatever you got to do, get the sale no matter what, and it becomes much more personable. And then also you developed a good rapport through the sales process. So that's now the starting point in the business relationship where you didn't get them through the door with high pressure to. Then they're, like, second guessing. Did I make the right choice? Did I choose the right person, the right company? Now I'm doubting if this is really good for me or if I just said yes because they were really persuasive. So just getting the deal isn't enough. You want them to be there for the right reasons with the right set of expectations and mindset to then have a successful business relationship after the sale.

Matt Ryder [00:25:34]:
Yeah, I chronically undersell everything. Like enormously undersell. I basically don't tell anyone anything they're getting. I'm very aloof with my presentations. Like they're very bare bones because I would rather get the bind on the outcome, you know what I mean? And that's what we're working towards. And then I put it together, but I'd rather the person be quite surprised with everything they get. So if I'm delivering them ten things, I'll tell them about five and I sell them on the five. And then when they get the ten, they're happy as Larry.

Matt Ryder [00:26:07]:
But I haven't had someone refund for a very long time because I don't have to sell anything in a way that's crappy. I used to have like a 20% refund rate back in the day, but it's because I just bullied people into buying. It was just a very unnuanced way of doing it. And I find that. I think one of the issues is with a lot of sales trainers is they haven't actually sold that much. They haven't actually been sales reps in many industries. Like, if you've been a sales rep in one industry, you shouldn't be a sales coach. Coaching, also, just because you were good doesn't mean you should coach either.

Matt Ryder [00:26:42]:
And just because you weren't good doesn't mean you shouldn't coach either, to be honest. Like an Olympic powerlifting coach doesn't have to be a champion powerlift. They just have to understand it. It's funny, right? One of our best coaches, he's a great salesperson, but he just doesn't like it. He just doesn't like it. He doesn't like selling, but he loves sales coaching. It's a funny thing and he's phenomenal. It's actually the hardest thing about running a sales coaching company is finding sales coaches.

Matt Ryder [00:27:10]:
Because good sales coaches are usually good at sales. You know what I mean? And so they're really expensive. So you have to find people who are good at sales but don't want to sell. It's like the Jerry Seinfeld I choose not to run. Right. And then they start coaching people, and those people get awesome results and make a lot of money, and they want to get back into sales. Right. So that's like the cycle.

Matt Ryder [00:27:33]:
Coaching is something that I think I'm particularly good at. I think I'm very good at it because I've done a lot of coaching and I've broken down things and I'm disciplined enough to not give people all the answers they want because I don't care what people think of me. So if someone says, I want these three answers, I go, I'm only giving you one of them. It's because I just feel like I will give them the answer they need. I'm not there to be their friend. And so I don't just answer questions, and I don't answer questions without context. Like, if you can't give me context, I'll just be like, ma'am, I'm not answering a question because I'm just going to be answering it because you asked it. And I don't actually know all the answers.

Matt Ryder [00:28:14]:
I don't know enough about it. The guy goes, hey, can you go through my funnel? I go, why? To give me some feedback? I go, what do you mean? I'm not your fucking avatar. Sorry, I'm not your client avatar. What feedback am I going to give you that's going to be useful? All I'm going to do is give you the feedback of me, who runs different companies than what you have. I don't know what possible input I could give you. If you give me, like, can you go through my funnel to have a look at this in particular, to see what that would trigger from a sales that I can give you, but just go, can you have a look at my funnel and give me feedback and be like, what a useless bit of information I could give you? It'd be worthless information. Like, why do you want it? I'll do it for you, but it's worthless. People come to me with like, hey, can you teach me how to handle this? Objection.

Matt Ryder [00:28:57]:
I'm like, I mean, I could, but what a waste of time. Like, why are you getting it? That's a weird objection to get. You get that a lot? No, I just got it once last week. Then why are you worrying about it? Are you wasting your time on something you got once? Did it hurt your feelings? Things? Is that what happened? What are we talking about here? And then if I give you three things to change and you do all three and you get a good result, which one was it? I don't know. And so it's like, I'll give you one thing to change, but I want more. I don't care what you want. You joined me. I didn't join you.

Matt Ryder [00:29:36]:
You know what I mean? It's not. This works. I tell you what you need. I'm your coach. Beat it. If you haven't experienced a lot of different industries and stuff like that, and you haven't sort of gotten your feet wet in a lot of them, I think it becomes very hard to coach. And if you're very married as well to a particular way of doing things, I think that everything that you tell people is very skewed. And so for me, I just want people to succeed.

Matt Ryder [00:30:04]:
And if that means that they do a little bit of what I say and what somebody else says, I don't care. I'll be very clear. I couldn't care less. Just do what works, right. If you get on the phone and scream like a wookie and close at 50% and your clients are happy, go scream like a wookie. Like, what do I care? Right? And let's just make small and targeted changes. That's actually the most difficult thing. When I come into a company, I have to do all the change management stuff because their leadership wants me just to put everything in straight away.

Matt Ryder [00:30:35]:
And I go, no, if I do that, you're going to fire me in 30 days because it's going to be like a drop. Because even if it's better, just because it's new, you're going to do it worse. So I have to drip feed this in a way that makes sense. If you don't mean to do that, I'm just not going to do it. It's fine. But don't tell me how to do my job. You do it my way or we don't do it. That's kind of how it works, which is a cool position to be in.

Matt Ryder [00:31:03]:
I like that. But sales coaching is a very tricky game because you can really screw some things up if you get too bulletigate about it. And there's an inherent arrogance, I think, in salespeople. And I think that when people start making money, it tends to exacerbate that a little bit. And so I think that, generally speaking, some of the problems with the industry is that people just are so arrogant that they just make people do things in their way and call them stupid if they don't, which is obviously ridiculous. And who cares what people say? I mean, she if we're going to take sides over the way that someone conducts himself on a sales call, that's a level of tribalism that I just can't buy into. Do you know what I mean? Who cares? Guys what are we doing here? That is not a religion. We don't have to fight.

Matt Ryder [00:31:56]:
It's so dumb. I laugh. I see people going like, oh, my goodness, NEPQ. It's like, oh, my God, guys, just take it easy. Everyone's fine. It'll be, yeah, anyway, it's just fun.

Travis Albritton [00:32:10]:
So I know that you've personally trained a lot of salespeople. Your organization trains a lot of salespeople. You work with a lot of companies. What are the top bad habits that you see in sales organizations and salespeople? That is like, okay, these are the things we need to untrain first before we can start building back up the right habits.

Matt Ryder [00:32:31]:
Yeah. The first thing is assumptive language, right? That's a bad habit that I think everyone can get rid of. I think it's just a net positive all around. People say like, oh, you lose the frame and don't worry about the frame. It's an illusion anyway. If you think you have control over the situation, you just want control, but you don't have any, so don't worry about it. Like, what are you going to make them by? You think that by setting up at the beginning, hey, at the end, I'm going to ask you to make a decision. It can be a yes no, but it can't be a maybe.

Matt Ryder [00:33:03]:
Of course it could be a maybe. Of course you have no control over that person. What are you talking about? It's funny to me anyway, but yeah, I think assumptive language, like, hey, I'm really looking forward to finding the best marketing product for you. I'm looking forward to having a conversation so I can show you the best. We're the best at this. Or just very assumptive. Like, hey, it looks like you're on the call so that you can get more sales, right? It's like, maybe it's just assumptive. I think that when you look at things in terms of real truth, you realize that none of that stuff matters anyway, because if we're having a conversation about my hand, right? We can have a chat about my hand.

Matt Ryder [00:33:46]:
Like, what do you see? We have a chat about it.

Travis Albritton [00:33:49]:
Yeah, I just see the palm. I see what I can see.

Matt Ryder [00:33:52]:
Exactly. So if none of us clarify what side of the hand we're looking at, right? Like, I assist the salespeople, I go, hey, let's have a discussion about my hand. Like, what do you see? And they go, I see this and I see a line and I see this and I go, and if I'm wearing a watch, I'll go like, what time is it on my watch? They go, I don't know. And I go, well, I can see it. Why can't you? I go, ah, you never asked what side I was looking at, you know what I mean? And so it's like we're having different conversations, but we're talking about the same thing, you know what I mean? But there's like this veil of, like, I think assumptive language is like you're just assuming that you can provide what you can provide the best. You're assuming that they want something. So it's like you could just neutralify that really simply by, hey, it looks like you booked them. The call about possibly getting more sales, is that right? Right.

Matt Ryder [00:34:47]:
And then it's like I'm asking the question because maybe they go, well, no, we're actually wanting to increase our aov. Okay, that makes sense. Right? And so now it's like we're getting clarity. And I would make it more neutral than that again, you know what I mean? And just get a bit more vague with it. But that's a really bad habit. And you can do that throughout the entire process. Even at the end, when I do my pitch, it looks like what we do might actually work for you. Right.

Matt Ryder [00:35:22]:
That's as assumptive as I'll get even at the pitch, right. Because I just want to keep that sales resistance down. I don't want them to feel like they're in a sales process until the very, very end when it's like I'm presenting my offer now, it's like I've broken the veil at that point. Right, but that's a really bad one. I think the other one is as well, is not using scripts. I think people think scripts are bad, but then they'll happily go and watch a movie.

Travis Albritton [00:35:54]:
Right?

Matt Ryder [00:35:55]:
Everyone sounds terrible when they're scripted. Except all those people that don't. There's all those people too. They just have a bad taste in their mouth from telemarketers. Right. So scripts are like, a good script will set you free, and it doesn't mean that you follow it word for word. However, it should be pretty close. And the better you get, the closer you are to it, because the better you get at keeping people on track.

Matt Ryder [00:36:18]:
Right. And it's a phenomenal way of keeping yourself on point and walking down a particular pathway and keeping the conversation going. Because most people, the most common reason why people screw up their sales is because they're not actually listening to the prospect. They're just trying to figure out what they're going to say next. And so if you can release yourself of that and just know that your script and you have to know the intent, people just think, oh, it's just words. No, it's the intent of the question. Because then you can just manipulate the question a little bit to get a more specific answer or whatever. But it's like, it's the intent of it.

Matt Ryder [00:36:53]:
You know, I what mean? It's like I can ask that question four different ways and I can manipulate that question to give me different answers and I can emphasize different things. Understanding the what and the why and the how behind the questions, that kind of allows you to kind of really be good at sales, but it just allows you to kind of chill out. And you can have your script up next to you, and then from there, you're talking to the person. They just glance over. You know what your next question is? You're like, sweet, right? And so you can listen, listen, you hear what you need to hear, and then you go, okay, that makes sense. And you go, your next question, right. And that, generally speaking, stops from getting off track because salespeople have a bad habit of being able to, they conflate interesting and productive. Right.

Matt Ryder [00:37:41]:
Let's say I sell marketing services, right? It's a really common one. And they go, what are you doing? Let's just say you're there to get them more leads. Now, does what they do for lead generation right now actually matter? Does it change your pitch? No. Then why are we talking about it?

Travis Albritton [00:38:06]:
Right.

Matt Ryder [00:38:08]:
It's irrelevant to the conversation. And so it's interesting, yet ultimately unproductive. So if I'm selling it and I go, okay, so they're going to get, okay, more leads. Okay, cool. What are you doing to get more leads now? Well, we're doing this and this and this, and they go on a tangent. I go, oh, no, I'm sorry. So that's what you're currently doing to get, what are you doing to get the increased lead flow? Right. Okay, that makes sense.

Matt Ryder [00:38:36]:
Right? What makes you think you need more leads anyway? Right. Let's solve the problem. What are you really looking for? Right. I don't care about your current marketing strategies. It doesn't affect me at all. I'm going to do my own. It's the whole point. That's why we're on the call.

Matt Ryder [00:38:49]:
So what do I care what you're doing? Hey, tell me all the things that you're doing that aren't working so I can avoid them. Right. You know what I mean, and so it's irrelevant. I don't care about someone's sales process. Right. Hey, tell me about your sales process now. Why? I don't care doesn't affect me. Doesn't bother me.

Matt Ryder [00:39:09]:
You know what I mean? I just want to know what they're doing to get better at sales. That's what they're here to do, get better. It doesn't really affect, it's not going to change what I give them, right? Oh, you're doing that for your sales? I'm sorry, man, I can't help you.

Travis Albritton [00:39:28]:
Right.

Matt Ryder [00:39:29]:
And so it's interesting, it ultimately unproductive, doesn't drive the sales forward and just blows the call out unless I'm selling them.

Travis Albritton [00:39:38]:
Definitely.

Matt Ryder [00:39:38]:
Sales process change, then I probably want to know about it like a little bit. So that can help me steer the conversation. Right. So again, if you're assumptive and then allowing, if you're off a script and you're just like asking a series of kind of questions or whatever, that's kind of in your head and you have no real formula way of doing it, then you're going to get drawn into rabbit holes. It's just fluff and time. And if you're having hour long sales calls, I mean, I don't know what you're selling, but like hour 90 minutes, it's crazy, right?

Travis Albritton [00:40:12]:
You're making a friend.

Matt Ryder [00:40:13]:
Yeah. All my calls are 30 minutes. All of them. That doesn't mean everyone can do that, but I'm not having a chat.

Travis Albritton [00:40:25]:
Yeah. There's an actual intent to the reason you're being there. You're not trying to find a best man for your wedding.

Matt Ryder [00:40:31]:
And every question is asked specifically to get an outcome that I'm looking for. Why is that important to you now, though? Well, why is that important to you now, though? Right? Same question, different answers. The first one was a downward inflection at the end, concerned tone, emphasizing, now they'll give me a time frame answer every time. Second way I said, I emphasize the that and went up at the end. So curious, playful tone that tangible. We just spoke about. I dictate how you answer the question. I dictate how you feel about it.

Matt Ryder [00:41:08]:
If I dictate all that just by doing those little changes, like, man, I'm playing 4d underwater wizards chess and you're playing checkers. You don't even realize I've got you in checkmate within the first three minutes. You don't even know it. You know what I mean? And the cool thing about sales is like, I sort of say it's like playing chess against people, but you'll never play chess with them again, so you can be a one trick pony. I say the same stupid jokes in every call, right? I have sort of a rotation of jokes depending on to break tension and depending on what the little quips and stuff like that, right? You do the same stuff. All my calls done, identical, super boring. The conversation goes one way, and it's because I've just crafted it to go that way. And generally speaking, Humans are very conditioned to respond to speech in very particular ways, right? And so this is how our language works, right? It's how western language works.

Matt Ryder [00:42:13]:
If I go up at the end, you know, I'm asking a question. That's why people have weird modulations in their voice. If you ever get people where you can't tell what they're asking, it's because they have a weird modulation of their voice. And I try to coach that out of people all the time. And I'm the guy who tells you you have bad breath, right? So it's like, hey, your voice is weird. You know what I mean? And so trying to fix that stuff or they have an accent, you have to fix, you know what I mean, with certain things, or you have to put in pre frames for certain accents, like eastern european accents, you know what I mean? So we create jokes around the beginning of it, you know what I mean? To soften because to a western ear, an eastern european accent sounds so angry, you know what I mean? And so you've got to sort of, like, you got to soften it, you know what I mean? If you come from, like, a korean background, Koreans don't use their facial expressions and tonality very much, right? So we have to teach them how to, like, you're talking to westerners. Like, this is different. You've got to learn how westerner.

Matt Ryder [00:43:14]:
If you're trying to sell westerners, you got to learn how westerners. All the ways of which they take intent. It's like facial expressions, body language, tonality, right? The word choice itself, they all play a role. It's weird. You'll probably notice it now, but I don't have much facial expression at all. Right? Like, my face doesn't really move that much, but I have a highly dynamic voice, right? But the reason why I had to develop that is because I did phone sales. So you don't need facial expressions on phone sales. But I've got no wrinkles and I'm 40, right? So there's a win.

Matt Ryder [00:43:50]:
But if I was doing a lot more face to face selling or zoom selling back when I was learning how to sell, I would have a much more expressive face and stuff like that because I did it over the phone. It's just all voice. It's a strange. It's interesting anyway, I find interesting, but I'm a sales nerd, so there you go.

Travis Albritton [00:44:08]:
Well, yeah, I mean, it's one of those things. You can always go deeper. You can always add more nuance. You can always add additional techniques to help you shape things. Because I think for me, in my own continued development in sales, it's not just about. At first, it was like building the self confidence to be able to take the quote unquote rejection like the misfit. This solution isn't a good fit for you. And then just taking your stripes, it's like you just got to go through it a couple of times and crash and burn to then learn firsthand what not to do.

Travis Albritton [00:44:42]:
But then shifting into continuing to add new techniques, new approaches, things like embracing scripts and question series. So that way you're not having to think about what question to ask next. You already know what the question is, so you can just be more tuned into listening to the response and making sure that you have the right context for the conversation you're having.

Matt Ryder [00:45:02]:
I can role play with it.

Travis Albritton [00:45:03]:
About a sumptu language. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do some role play here. Before we wrap up.

Matt Ryder [00:45:09]:
What do you want me to sell?

Travis Albritton [00:45:11]:
Let's see. Why don't you sell me a brand new cordless vacuum cleaner?

Matt Ryder [00:45:18]:
Okay. Yeah, if you want.

Travis Albritton [00:45:23]:
And assume that I'm coming to you, and I'm like, my vacuum cleaner just broke. You're the person in the department store, and it's like, hey, I'm looking for a vacuum cleaner.

Matt Ryder [00:45:32]:
Fair enough. Random. Fair enough. So we're on a call or we're just face to face? Whatever. All right. Yeah.

Travis Albritton [00:45:41]:
Either coming to me however you want to take it.

Matt Ryder [00:45:43]:
Okay. Hey, man, it looks like you're looking for possibly get a new vacuum cleaner. How can I help?

Travis Albritton [00:45:50]:
Yeah, I've been using a vacuum cleaner, and it finally died.

Matt Ryder [00:45:55]:
That could be trouble. Yeah, that could be. Why did it die?

Travis Albritton [00:46:00]:
Half my bedroom is still dusty.

Matt Ryder [00:46:01]:
Still dusty. What are you doing? It was just old. Old? That could be trouble for sure. Yeah, it was just old. Okay, well, walk me through when you got that vacuum. Why'd you get it?

Travis Albritton [00:46:14]:
I just knew that I needed. I wanted clean carpets. I wanted less dust in the house. I have pets, and so I wanted to be able to pick up the dog care for my friends that have allergies that they can actually come visit me.

Matt Ryder [00:46:27]:
Okay, so what is about that one specifically that you got? Was it, like, have some sort of specific features that you liked? Walk me through. What is it about that one?

Travis Albritton [00:46:34]:
I mean, to be honest, it had a dog prints picture on the side of the box.

Matt Ryder [00:46:38]:
Okay. Is that how easy it is to sell? You just got to put a puppy in front of you?

Travis Albritton [00:46:44]:
Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Because I looked at the options and thought maybe this is the best one for what I need.

Matt Ryder [00:46:50]:
Okay, well, it sounds like that was perfect, man. I guess. Is there anything that you would change about. I guess, besides the fact that it's dead, but about that vacuum, if you could, whether it be the features it had or kind of how it worked.

Travis Albritton [00:47:00]:
So the things that I didn't like about it were I had to plug it into the wall for it to work. And so if I'm going around the house, I have to go back, unplug it, replug it in. In a new place, and kind of attach myself to the wall in order to power it.

Matt Ryder [00:47:14]:
That could be trouble.

Travis Albritton [00:47:14]:
And so I know that I've heard about cordless vacuums, so I'm interested in that. But then also just anything I can do to make the process of vacuuming faster, because it's not something I enjoy doing, but it's something I know that I should be doing.

Matt Ryder [00:47:29]:
Okay. And is it your house? Do you own it? Do you rent it?

Travis Albritton [00:47:34]:
Yeah, it's my house. I own it.

Matt Ryder [00:47:36]:
Okay. And is it carpets everywhere, or is it hardware?

Travis Albritton [00:47:39]:
It's carpets in the main living room and the bedrooms and stuff.

Matt Ryder [00:47:43]:
And is it one story or you.

Travis Albritton [00:47:44]:
Got the bathrooms, don't have carpet.

Matt Ryder [00:47:45]:
Okay, well, that would be weird, wouldn't it? Yeah, that'd be weird. Okay. And is it just you? Are we looking to cover the whole family? Dogs, kids? Like, what do we got?

Travis Albritton [00:47:53]:
Yeah, this is just me. My wife got two young kids, got two dogs.

Matt Ryder [00:47:58]:
How old are the kids?

Travis Albritton [00:48:00]:
Five and two.

Matt Ryder [00:48:02]:
Five and two. You're in the thick of it, my friend. We got to save you some time, for sure. Okay, so walk me through, because it sounds like the other one was pretty good. But I guess what is it that you're. Walk me through? Like, an ideal criteria, like, if you can put together a vacuum, even a little system for the house, what would you really want from that? To make sure that it's a thing that can sustain you and the family and not be just a thing that you have to think about every day. Yeah.

Travis Albritton [00:48:29]:
I mean, I would love for it to actually pick up dirt and dog hair and pollen and things like that. I've had vacuums in the past supposed to do.

Matt Ryder [00:48:40]:
Well, besides the stuff that a vacuum is supposed to do, if you could really think about it, what do you think would be a good system for the house? Would you want something in every room, or do you want to have to cart it around, like, something more portable or. What are you looking for?

Travis Albritton [00:48:55]:
Yeah, just something portable. Something that's easy to carry around the house. Okay. Can just have it like it's stored in a closet when I'm not using it.

Matt Ryder [00:49:02]:
Okay.

Travis Albritton [00:49:02]:
So it's kind of out of the way, but there when I need it, and then would love to be able to just when I need to vacuum real fast before people come over, that it's ready to go and I can get it done quickly.

Matt Ryder [00:49:16]:
Okay. That makes sense. That makes sense. Okay. Have you considered, I guess, the systems that you can put into the house? Do you know about them?

Travis Albritton [00:49:31]:
No, I'm not familiar with that.

Matt Ryder [00:49:33]:
Okay. Yeah. So lot of people do who are in your situation that have kind of a multi room house, which is pretty common. Right. So what they can do to make things a little bit simpler is they can just have an outlet in each room, and then from there, you just have one thing, and it actually sucks it up into a centralized location. I'm not sure if that would be right for you, but do the dogs have access to the whole house, or are they kind of locked in an area?

Travis Albritton [00:49:56]:
Yeah, there's no room that they're not allowed in the house. Essentially, they run it just like we do.

Matt Ryder [00:50:02]:
Okay, cool. And there's allergies. Is that right? Is that. You mentioned some allergies?

Travis Albritton [00:50:07]:
Yeah. Not for us, but we'll have friends that come over that have dog allergies. And so I'll either have to give them Benadryl or something to help.

Matt Ryder [00:50:15]:
You're drugging your friends as they come in. That could be trouble.

Travis Albritton [00:50:20]:
Yeah, I mean, we don't want them sneezing and getting stuffy noses, so make sure we have Benadryl so when they come over, they don't have to deal with their allergies.

Matt Ryder [00:50:28]:
Okay. All right. So I guess, have you considered any of this sort of. What would you guys do if you weren't able to, I guess, get a more comprehensive system in place and get a vacuum cleaner that can ensure that you don't have to do that? How would that affect you guys, I.

Travis Albritton [00:50:47]:
Imagine, just take longer. I'd be more resistant to want to actually vacuum because it would be more work for me and so I'd do it less often and wouldn't really fix the problem.

Matt Ryder [00:50:56]:
You're already working a lot. I assume heavy is the head that wears the crown, right? Provide for the family and whatnot. Yeah. To try and take that burden off the shoulders. Well, that makes sense, man. I think there's probably two ways that we could do it, and I think that what our vacuums would do would probably work for you, especially the sort of more hyperlyngenic system range. If you'd like, I can walk you through how we do and what we do, and then from there I can sort of put together, I think, what would be a good long term solution for you and the family so you don't got to worry about this stuff again. Would that help you out?

Travis Albritton [00:51:24]:
Yeah, definitely.

Matt Ryder [00:51:25]:
Sweet. That is a weird one. But, hey, there we go. I'm going to try and sell some vacuums.

Travis Albritton [00:51:30]:
I was trying to throw you a curveball. No, that was great.

Matt Ryder [00:51:32]:
I think I did it. All right. I probably sell more vacuums than most. Again, it's like you go, and again, you take everyone through the process, but then depending on what you're selling is like, how deeply you stick in areas for that. I'm only going to brush over consequence. I'm not going to really go through it because it's just going to seem a little bit. But I still want to do it. Do you know what I mean? I don't skip it, but you sort of going to spend a bit more time in problem awareness, right? Because the solution is not epic, the consequence is not catastrophic, but the problem is annoying, right? So it's like, how much is the problem worth to solve? You know what I mean? And then I could present two different solutions.

Matt Ryder [00:52:16]:
A very good vacuum or a system adds value to the home, all that kind of stuff. So if I knew more about vacuums, I'd probably do a bit better. But again, it's just like you can sort of sell anything once you figure out how to the roadmap you're trying to put in your head. We got clients who sell water filtration. I'll just role play it for you. And they're always like, how'd you do that? I was like, oh, it's just the same stuff, mate, over and over again, right? I went into a, in Australia, they have like buyer's agents and sellers agents, right? For real estate agents. Like they're separate. And the buyer's agents are paid by the buyer, right.

Matt Ryder [00:52:57]:
So it's a different way of doing things. And I went in and did a training for them and then I did a role play and they were like, how did you do that? These guys are like, ten year. They're like one of the biggest companies. And I was like, it's just the same stuff, guys. It's no different. Right? So they're like, how would you outbound dial lead that came from here? I was like, well, this is how I do it. Hey, you be the prospect, it could be a tough one. I was like, I don't care, right? And I did it.

Matt Ryder [00:53:21]:
And they were like, holy crap. And I was like, yeah, I'm just better at this than you guys are, but you can learn it. It's fine. It's like, just because you're successful in your industry doesn't mean you're good at sales is a very particular skill set. And so once you're good at sales and being good at selling, one thing doesn't mean you're good at sales. The way that I kind of describe it is if you wanted me to teach you how to, if you wanted me to teach you how to go around a racetrack really quickly, it's like, would you want to learn how to go around the racetrack really quickly? Do you want to know how to drive? Well, right? Because there's ways to teach a specific thing very effectively, but it doesn't translate into everything. But you can do a little bit of both. Do you know what I mean? You can start off with the specific and then move up, but you might develop a lot of bad habits by doing the shortcut method.

Matt Ryder [00:54:15]:
You know what I mean? But there's pros and cons to both, right? Like, if you're like, hey, this is the only thing I'm ever going to sell. It's like, well, maybe it's not worth going down the rabbit hole. Maybe just become a savage and sell on that, but it's probably not going to translate. So if you ever want to sell anything else, you're going to start a game. And so it's just a choice, really. So I sort of went down the sales rabbit hole pretty deep. I really enjoy it. So I think it's interesting.

Travis Albritton [00:54:42]:
Yeah, well, you're very good at it. You're very practiced, obviously. So I know you guys have a lot of resources at different investment levels for people that want to either learn sales better themselves or work with you, what's the best place for people to go to learn more about how you work with people, how you train up sales and things like that.

Matt Ryder [00:55:01]:
Yeah, for sure, man. So they can just go to 7th levelhq.com. It's probably a good way if they're on Instagram. I'm real Matt Ryder. You can hit me up. I probably won't reply, but you can try that too. I don't check instagram. I have social media on my phone, so I don't check.

Matt Ryder [00:55:17]:
I'm pretty bad at checking. Yeah. So yeah, if you go to seven level hq, you can look at it. There's a free course on there as well. There's a free tonality training course. Go on there, get a free course. There's also like a thing called a black book bundle. It's like $27.

Matt Ryder [00:55:31]:
It's like another course we have. We have stuff ranging from free to like seven figures and like everything in between. It's a pretty wide ranging group of products, but it's all just variations or rated versions of the same thing. Right? So it's all NEPQ, it's all the system. But it's like the system has a lot of components and so it's like we can teach you a specific part of the component, you know what I mean? And that might be the black book bundle. We teach you a specific part of it, or the tonality course or we have an objection handling course. It's $50 a week, you know what I mean? It's got all kinds of stuff like that and role plays and stuff like that. But it's like, it's a specific part.

Matt Ryder [00:56:09]:
So I just teach you the whole thing. It just takes more time. It's more resources for us. It costs more money. Just how it works. That's how the world goes around, right?

Travis Albritton [00:56:20]:
For sure. So I'll definitely link both those things in the show notes. So if you're listening, you want to check it out, you can just click over. Matt, thank you so much for your time for the role playing at the end. That was a fun bonus for me. I was like, let me experience it in action. So that was really great. And yeah, just thanks again for everything that you shared.

Matt Ryder [00:56:37]:
No worries. Yeah, thanks for having me on.

Travis Albritton [00:56:39]:
So my number one takeaway from my conversation with Matt, other than the role playing at the end, which was really helpful for me to really not just visualize the things he was talking about, but actually experience it and experience kind of the tactics and the strategy we discussed was the assumptive language thing. It's so easy to just assume that, oh, you're on this call with me, and so these things must be true. And that's something I've definitely been guilty of doing in the past and something that I've done on sales conversations, where I assume something is true without actually asking it as a question and allowing the person I'm speaking to to speak into it. And so that's something I'm going to be mindful of and something I definitely think you should be mindful of as well. Again, if you want to see all the resources they have at 7th level, you can go to 7th levelhq.com. You can connect with Matt on Instagram. Those are both linked below in the show notes. And definitely take advantage of the free resources and the low cost resources they have to level up your sales game.

Travis Albritton [00:57:38]:
Well, thanks for sticking around for another episode of the Honest Marketing podcast. And until next time, be honest.